Thursday, March 06, 2008
Department of Youth - update #4, Part 2
The more one looks at the new youth league setup, the more it seems geared towards 16-18-year-olds rather than the higher end of the age range. Rob Baan's additional comments, reported here, certainly suggest as much.
In fairness, the title of the linked piece gives something of a false impression, given that Baan's actual comment was:
"It's not all about winning – it's about developing players."
Personally I would suggest that if players of close to professional standard aren't approaching a game with a competitive mentality by the time they are 20 (rather than 16), then there's something wrong.
The technical development aspect of the new competition is made quite explicit in the following extract:
The FFA will hold meetings with the youth league coaches about style of play they'd like to see in the lead up to the league kick off.
It will be interesting to see whether the FFA will be prepared to encroach on the autonomy of the clubs in this regard. I've suggested in the past that trying to impose a specific "style" on a particular group of players may be counter-productive, although some general guidelines would probably not hurt.
But would it be frowned upon, for instance, for a coach to take elaborate steps to take a brilliant playmaker on an opposition side "out of the game"? Such an approach would probably run contrary to the aims of the youth league, but said playmaker would certainly experience such treatment in the senior game.
In any case, there is sure to be a fine line between a laissez-faire developmental attitude and the desire for results if the coaches come to see a youth league gig as a ladder to further advancement.
But enough fussing, it's time for me to take the devil's advocate hat off and wish the new competition every success. It's a very bold move, given the distances and expenses involved, and it deserves all the support it can get - not least from the fans of the clubs concerned.
In fairness, the title of the linked piece gives something of a false impression, given that Baan's actual comment was:
"It's not all about winning – it's about developing players."
Personally I would suggest that if players of close to professional standard aren't approaching a game with a competitive mentality by the time they are 20 (rather than 16), then there's something wrong.
The technical development aspect of the new competition is made quite explicit in the following extract:
The FFA will hold meetings with the youth league coaches about style of play they'd like to see in the lead up to the league kick off.
It will be interesting to see whether the FFA will be prepared to encroach on the autonomy of the clubs in this regard. I've suggested in the past that trying to impose a specific "style" on a particular group of players may be counter-productive, although some general guidelines would probably not hurt.
But would it be frowned upon, for instance, for a coach to take elaborate steps to take a brilliant playmaker on an opposition side "out of the game"? Such an approach would probably run contrary to the aims of the youth league, but said playmaker would certainly experience such treatment in the senior game.
In any case, there is sure to be a fine line between a laissez-faire developmental attitude and the desire for results if the coaches come to see a youth league gig as a ladder to further advancement.
But enough fussing, it's time for me to take the devil's advocate hat off and wish the new competition every success. It's a very bold move, given the distances and expenses involved, and it deserves all the support it can get - not least from the fans of the clubs concerned.
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"....The more one looks at the new youth league setup, the more it seems geared towards 16-18-year-olds rather than the higher end of the age range. Rob Baan's additional comments, reported here, certainly suggest as much.
In fairness, the title of the linked piece gives something of a false impression, given that Baan's actual comment was:
"It's not all about winning – it's about developing players."
Personally I would suggest that if players of close to professional standard aren't approaching a game with a competitive mentality by the time they are 20 (rather than 16), then there's something wrong.
..."
If I could play the devil's advocate to your playing the devil's advocate, the league probably should be aimed more at development of players in the 16-18 year age group anyway. If a player has not reached senior professional level by the age of 21, it's generally a fair bet that they won't cut it at even a moderate standard pro level.
Overall though, it all sounds encouraging, although I suppose we're still crying out for more specifics, such as what will occur in the off-season. ie will the players need to find State League clubs individually, or will there be youth teams in State Leagues a la the AIS in the VPL?
I'm no youth development expert, so there would be more qualified people to comment on this. One thing I do know is that dropout rates should lower between 16 and 18. That's a small victory in itself.
In fairness, the title of the linked piece gives something of a false impression, given that Baan's actual comment was:
"It's not all about winning – it's about developing players."
Personally I would suggest that if players of close to professional standard aren't approaching a game with a competitive mentality by the time they are 20 (rather than 16), then there's something wrong.
..."
If I could play the devil's advocate to your playing the devil's advocate, the league probably should be aimed more at development of players in the 16-18 year age group anyway. If a player has not reached senior professional level by the age of 21, it's generally a fair bet that they won't cut it at even a moderate standard pro level.
Overall though, it all sounds encouraging, although I suppose we're still crying out for more specifics, such as what will occur in the off-season. ie will the players need to find State League clubs individually, or will there be youth teams in State Leagues a la the AIS in the VPL?
I'm no youth development expert, so there would be more qualified people to comment on this. One thing I do know is that dropout rates should lower between 16 and 18. That's a small victory in itself.
# posted by 
: March 7, 2008 at 10:55 AM
: March 7, 2008 at 10:55 AM
Hey Mikey,
I know you don't have Foxtel but see if you can catch the repeat of Total Football on Fox Sports 1 tonight at 6.. Baan answered a few more questions about the upcoming youth league, it was quite interesting.
He reiterated that winning the comp was of course important, but winning wasn't the *only* thing. It will be the fourth official who enforces the everyone-gets-30-mins rule - he'll be there with a stopwatch and if one or more youth players haven't been on they'll come on automatically - didn't say who decides who comes off though ;-)
I'm interested to see who/what sort of over-age players will be used, given the aim of developing technical skills.
If the teams must play "technically", that should count both ways, with one team trying to isolate an opposing technically-skilled playmaker. Can't expect a side just to stand back in awe and watch the (shudder at the term) jogo bonito.
Finally -- since we're emphasising aspects besides pure end results, how about trying to instill a couple of more cultures: no diving, time-wasting or play-acting, and no petulant outbursts at the ref, and handbags with other players.
- Magnus
I know you don't have Foxtel but see if you can catch the repeat of Total Football on Fox Sports 1 tonight at 6.. Baan answered a few more questions about the upcoming youth league, it was quite interesting.
He reiterated that winning the comp was of course important, but winning wasn't the *only* thing. It will be the fourth official who enforces the everyone-gets-30-mins rule - he'll be there with a stopwatch and if one or more youth players haven't been on they'll come on automatically - didn't say who decides who comes off though ;-)
I'm interested to see who/what sort of over-age players will be used, given the aim of developing technical skills.
If the teams must play "technically", that should count both ways, with one team trying to isolate an opposing technically-skilled playmaker. Can't expect a side just to stand back in awe and watch the (shudder at the term) jogo bonito.
Finally -- since we're emphasising aspects besides pure end results, how about trying to instill a couple of more cultures: no diving, time-wasting or play-acting, and no petulant outbursts at the ref, and handbags with other players.
- Magnus
# posted by : March 7, 2008 at 12:40 PM
: March 7, 2008 at 12:40 PM
Thanks Mags, I'll check it out.
...Finally -- since we're emphasising aspects besides pure end results, how about trying to instill a couple of more cultures: no diving, time-wasting or play-acting, and no petulant outbursts at the ref, and handbags with other players....
I couldn't agree more.
...Finally -- since we're emphasising aspects besides pure end results, how about trying to instill a couple of more cultures: no diving, time-wasting or play-acting, and no petulant outbursts at the ref, and handbags with other players....
I couldn't agree more.
Thex Fozz has agreed to answer a few questions for my blog. Have you got any that you wanted to ask? preferably ones he might actually answer.
# posted by : March 7, 2008 at 1:46 PM
: March 7, 2008 at 1:46 PM
"....Have you got any that you wanted to ask? preferably ones he might actually answer..."
We wouldn't want to waste his time now, would we.
We wouldn't want to waste his time now, would we.
# posted by : March 7, 2008 at 2:03 PM
: March 7, 2008 at 2:03 PM
..."....Have you got any that you wanted to ask? preferably ones he might actually answer..."
We wouldn't want to waste his time now, would we....
Oh TFO, you do tease. ;-)
Leave it with me, Peng. If I think of anything I'll pass it on.
We wouldn't want to waste his time now, would we....
Oh TFO, you do tease. ;-)
Leave it with me, Peng. If I think of anything I'll pass it on.
""It's not all about winning – it's about developing players."
Personally I would suggest that if players of close to professional standard aren't approaching a game with a competitive mentality by the time they are 20 (rather than 16), then there's something wrong.
...""
Sorry, but i disagree completely, already we know that the technical standard here is low.. this the least we can do, i am very happy that the FFA will enforce the youth development to work this way.... the benefits will be clear when we actually get players able to make simple passes properly.
It saddens me the furious winning mentality at times that blinds people so much so that it affects the development of the game....
What would be funny if hte youth league manages to generate a higher technical standard than the A-leauge itself
Personally I would suggest that if players of close to professional standard aren't approaching a game with a competitive mentality by the time they are 20 (rather than 16), then there's something wrong.
...""
Sorry, but i disagree completely, already we know that the technical standard here is low.. this the least we can do, i am very happy that the FFA will enforce the youth development to work this way.... the benefits will be clear when we actually get players able to make simple passes properly.
It saddens me the furious winning mentality at times that blinds people so much so that it affects the development of the game....
What would be funny if hte youth league manages to generate a higher technical standard than the A-leauge itself
# posted by : March 7, 2008 at 6:22 PM
: March 7, 2008 at 6:22 PM
...Sorry, but i disagree completely, already we know that the technical standard here is low.. this the least we can do, i am very happy that the FFA will enforce the youth development to work this way.... the benefits will be clear when we actually get players able to make simple passes properly.
It saddens me the furious winning mentality at times that blinds people so much so that it affects the development of the game....
Up to a certain age, I agree that an excessive emphasis on results is counter-productive. But if you're 20-21 and seriously thinking about making a career out of the game, I don't think you can afford to be playing in a league where results count for little, quite frankly. Hence my comment that this league will probably end up being more suitable for the 16-18 age group.
And in any case, I don't think playing good football and gaining good results are mutually exclusive aims.
It saddens me the furious winning mentality at times that blinds people so much so that it affects the development of the game....
Up to a certain age, I agree that an excessive emphasis on results is counter-productive. But if you're 20-21 and seriously thinking about making a career out of the game, I don't think you can afford to be playing in a league where results count for little, quite frankly. Hence my comment that this league will probably end up being more suitable for the 16-18 age group.
And in any case, I don't think playing good football and gaining good results are mutually exclusive aims.
Once players technical abilities reach a higher level in the formative years, this will naturally carry over to when they become full timers in the A League, and will hold true whether the A League teams are results driven or not.
Plus, a results driven mentality need not be learned at youth level, it can adequately be instilled in a player at league level, just like anywhere else in the world.
As to article sited, why are senior A League players allowed to play in the youth league?
Leave the youth league for the youth.
Plus, a results driven mentality need not be learned at youth level, it can adequately be instilled in a player at league level, just like anywhere else in the world.
As to article sited, why are senior A League players allowed to play in the youth league?
Leave the youth league for the youth.
# posted by : March 7, 2008 at 9:37 PM
: March 7, 2008 at 9:37 PM
been o/s on work for the past week mike,so thanks for the analysis, esp on the youth league matters, which i've just caught up with.
very interesting, plenty of holes, but i'm sure many will be plugged, so very much looking forward to it all...
as for the thunder, not surprised they're struggling, the lack of noise in comparison to the galaxy has been a real pointer..
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very interesting, plenty of holes, but i'm sure many will be plugged, so very much looking forward to it all...
as for the thunder, not surprised they're struggling, the lack of noise in comparison to the galaxy has been a real pointer..
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