Sunday, September 16, 2007
Planet Foster - update
Boy oh boy. The continuing SBS v. FFA/Fox/Cockerill ping-pong media battle over Graham Arnold has degenerated into full-blown character assassination, thanks to that well-known celestial body rotating around Hiddink Minor.
Let's take another journey to that strange world, Planet Foster.
Normally, the only coaches considered for national appointment are those who have succeeded over many years, usually at both domestic and international levels, though not necessarily both. They must have developed the theoretical requirements the job demands and then have successfully applied that theoretical base in practice over many years - usually at least a decade.
You see, no-one on the planet has heard of Franz Beckenbauer, Michel Platini, Marco van Basten, Jürgen Klinsmann, Hristo Stoichkov, Rudi Völler...or any of the countless other distinguished former players who have been appointed as managers of their country with little or no coaching experience.
The players must be sick of answering the question, "Is Graham Arnold the man for the job?", particularly after they all gave their honest indication straight after the World Cup when they said we needed another quality, experienced technician.
Quotes, you see, can be extracted from thin air on Planet Foster. Or twisted to fit the obsessions of the writer.
He's been lucky. Fortunate to stay involved after his mate Farina was fired, even though most assistants leave as a matter of respect.
That irritatingly familiar phenomenon of the assistant stepping into the incumbent's chair (often after some quiet lobbying) is quite unknown on this planet.
I might add that it is common practice on Planet Foster to indulge in vicious invective against a person who is, erm, already a dead duck. It might be considered arrogant, cynical and insufferably smug elsewhere. But not on Planet Foster.
Planet Foster has recently acquired a satellite, by the way, which (when it manages to take some time off from gratuitous name-dropping) displays a rare talent for completely missing the point:
The fact that Arnold buckled under pressure, allowed the FFA to interfere in what he needed to do, permitted players to call the shots, is exactly why having an Australian coach in charge of the national team was the wrong call.
Erm, that, Mr. Fink, was precisely why they wanted an Australian in the job in the first place.
Let's take another journey to that strange world, Planet Foster.
Normally, the only coaches considered for national appointment are those who have succeeded over many years, usually at both domestic and international levels, though not necessarily both. They must have developed the theoretical requirements the job demands and then have successfully applied that theoretical base in practice over many years - usually at least a decade.
You see, no-one on the planet has heard of Franz Beckenbauer, Michel Platini, Marco van Basten, Jürgen Klinsmann, Hristo Stoichkov, Rudi Völler...or any of the countless other distinguished former players who have been appointed as managers of their country with little or no coaching experience.
The players must be sick of answering the question, "Is Graham Arnold the man for the job?", particularly after they all gave their honest indication straight after the World Cup when they said we needed another quality, experienced technician.
Quotes, you see, can be extracted from thin air on Planet Foster. Or twisted to fit the obsessions of the writer.
He's been lucky. Fortunate to stay involved after his mate Farina was fired, even though most assistants leave as a matter of respect.
That irritatingly familiar phenomenon of the assistant stepping into the incumbent's chair (often after some quiet lobbying) is quite unknown on this planet.
I might add that it is common practice on Planet Foster to indulge in vicious invective against a person who is, erm, already a dead duck. It might be considered arrogant, cynical and insufferably smug elsewhere. But not on Planet Foster.
Planet Foster has recently acquired a satellite, by the way, which (when it manages to take some time off from gratuitous name-dropping) displays a rare talent for completely missing the point:
The fact that Arnold buckled under pressure, allowed the FFA to interfere in what he needed to do, permitted players to call the shots, is exactly why having an Australian coach in charge of the national team was the wrong call.
Erm, that, Mr. Fink, was precisely why they wanted an Australian in the job in the first place.
Comments:
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Be careful Mikey, Mr Fink might send you some more hate email ;-)
# posted by 
: September 16, 2007 at 11:15 PM
: September 16, 2007 at 11:15 PM
"Erm, that, Mr. Fink, was precisely why they wanted an Australian in the job in the first place."
Really Mikey? Now you seem to be indulging in the same incredible ESP "thin air" talents you are accusing Foster and Fink of. I suspect appointing Arnold was not really about having a puppet, but more of a stop-gap.
Foster is spot on in his assessment of Arnold. You don't have to be to close to the game to know that the players were not at all impressed with his coaching ability and you also surely understand that the "no experience" coaches you list were outstanding world internationals and generally long-term captains. That makes them respected within the football community they represent - unlike Arnold who at best was a journeyman.
Fink may name-drop, but that is his shtick and it doesn't detract from his points. Your hero Glanville is the biggest name-dropper of all and it doesn't detract from his work. Your shtick is the "planet" stuff - again no problem with that, although if I wanted to be critical it really is becoming a pretty limp way of alluding that another commentator is living in some fantasy land.
Your views are normally spot on Mikey, but I suspect that you have also fallen into the character assisination trap you seem quick to accuse others of. Pity.
Really Mikey? Now you seem to be indulging in the same incredible ESP "thin air" talents you are accusing Foster and Fink of. I suspect appointing Arnold was not really about having a puppet, but more of a stop-gap.
Foster is spot on in his assessment of Arnold. You don't have to be to close to the game to know that the players were not at all impressed with his coaching ability and you also surely understand that the "no experience" coaches you list were outstanding world internationals and generally long-term captains. That makes them respected within the football community they represent - unlike Arnold who at best was a journeyman.
Fink may name-drop, but that is his shtick and it doesn't detract from his points. Your hero Glanville is the biggest name-dropper of all and it doesn't detract from his work. Your shtick is the "planet" stuff - again no problem with that, although if I wanted to be critical it really is becoming a pretty limp way of alluding that another commentator is living in some fantasy land.
Your views are normally spot on Mikey, but I suspect that you have also fallen into the character assisination trap you seem quick to accuse others of. Pity.
# posted by : September 17, 2007 at 5:33 AM
: September 17, 2007 at 5:33 AM
...sorry just to clarify my post, lest I fall into the "thin air" trap myself, I did mean to say that it appeared that not all the players responded to Arnold. And not that they all didn't. Nobody of course can really know what they all felt like - and it would be reasonable to assume that at least some must have felt he was a great coach. One could possibly deduce from the Asian Cup however that player divisions and rumblings were at the surface more than we have seen for some period - if the media reports of the time can be believed.
I should also say that Foster's shtick is apparently one of pushing the boundaries of being controversial. I find I agree with him more often than disagree. I am not so sure he would have gone for such an attack had not the Arnold/Cockerill camp not come out with their comments - although this battle has gone on for so long now I have forgotten who started it.
It would be nice now for both sides to put the issues behind them and move forward. The last thing the game needs is in-fighting that will detract from what should be good times ahead with a new WC cycle about to begin.
I should also say that Foster's shtick is apparently one of pushing the boundaries of being controversial. I find I agree with him more often than disagree. I am not so sure he would have gone for such an attack had not the Arnold/Cockerill camp not come out with their comments - although this battle has gone on for so long now I have forgotten who started it.
It would be nice now for both sides to put the issues behind them and move forward. The last thing the game needs is in-fighting that will detract from what should be good times ahead with a new WC cycle about to begin.
# posted by : September 17, 2007 at 6:02 AM
: September 17, 2007 at 6:02 AM
BOTN:
..."Erm, that, Mr. Fink, was precisely why they wanted an Australian in the job in the first place."
Really Mikey? Now you seem to be indulging in the same incredible ESP "thin air" talents you are accusing Foster and Fink of. I suspect appointing Arnold was not really about having a puppet, but more of a stop-gap....
Well, re the thin air comment, I've got my sources too. It was common knowledge at the time that Arnie was there to allow the FFA to slash costs after the spending at the WC, and not make too much noise about it. The push was always going to be renewed come the lead-up to 2010.
Anyway, the FFA got it wrong by appointing someone who would let them successfully carry out their (short-term) objectives? The logic is bizarre.
...Foster is spot on in his assessment of Arnold. You don't have to be to close to the game to know that the players were not at all impressed with his coaching ability and you also surely understand that the "no experience" coaches you list were outstanding world internationals and generally long-term captains. That makes them respected within the football community they represent - unlike Arnold who at best was a journeyman....
(1) Whether Foster's opinion of Arnold is accurate or not (and, as I've mentioned before, Arnold deserves criticism but not ridicule IMO) is essentially beside the point. He is on the way out anyway, the general judgement on him has already been made many times over, and this was unnecessary, opportunistic vitriol thrown at the easiest of targets. Disgusts me, quite frankly.
(2) The examples I mentioned (van Basten etc.) are merely the most well-known examples of that particular phenomenon. Arnold may have been a journeyman in world terms, but he was one of the most distinguished Australian players of his generation. The parallel is a fair one, IMO.
(3) Whether it only applies to the very top players is, again, largely beside the point. Foster has told his readers (not for the first time) a barefaced lie.
...Fink may name-drop, but that is his shtick and it doesn't detract from his points. Your hero Glanville is the biggest name-dropper of all and it doesn't detract from his work....
Fair enough. That aspect of Glanville's writing does make me cringe at times, I must admit.
...It would be nice now for both sides to put the issues behind them and move forward. The last thing the game needs is in-fighting that will detract from what should be good times ahead with a new WC cycle about to begin....
Couldn't agree more. The difference I see between Cockerill's piece and Foster's is that, while defending Arnold (yet again), the main thrust of Cocky's piece seems to be that we shouldn't just be going for the first big Dutch name on the list in the search for the man to take us to 2010. With that point, I agree.
Foster is just mudslinging, IMO. And his acolytes, as usual, are lapping it up.
..."Erm, that, Mr. Fink, was precisely why they wanted an Australian in the job in the first place."
Really Mikey? Now you seem to be indulging in the same incredible ESP "thin air" talents you are accusing Foster and Fink of. I suspect appointing Arnold was not really about having a puppet, but more of a stop-gap....
Well, re the thin air comment, I've got my sources too. It was common knowledge at the time that Arnie was there to allow the FFA to slash costs after the spending at the WC, and not make too much noise about it. The push was always going to be renewed come the lead-up to 2010.
Anyway, the FFA got it wrong by appointing someone who would let them successfully carry out their (short-term) objectives? The logic is bizarre.
...Foster is spot on in his assessment of Arnold. You don't have to be to close to the game to know that the players were not at all impressed with his coaching ability and you also surely understand that the "no experience" coaches you list were outstanding world internationals and generally long-term captains. That makes them respected within the football community they represent - unlike Arnold who at best was a journeyman....
(1) Whether Foster's opinion of Arnold is accurate or not (and, as I've mentioned before, Arnold deserves criticism but not ridicule IMO) is essentially beside the point. He is on the way out anyway, the general judgement on him has already been made many times over, and this was unnecessary, opportunistic vitriol thrown at the easiest of targets. Disgusts me, quite frankly.
(2) The examples I mentioned (van Basten etc.) are merely the most well-known examples of that particular phenomenon. Arnold may have been a journeyman in world terms, but he was one of the most distinguished Australian players of his generation. The parallel is a fair one, IMO.
(3) Whether it only applies to the very top players is, again, largely beside the point. Foster has told his readers (not for the first time) a barefaced lie.
...Fink may name-drop, but that is his shtick and it doesn't detract from his points. Your hero Glanville is the biggest name-dropper of all and it doesn't detract from his work....
Fair enough. That aspect of Glanville's writing does make me cringe at times, I must admit.
...It would be nice now for both sides to put the issues behind them and move forward. The last thing the game needs is in-fighting that will detract from what should be good times ahead with a new WC cycle about to begin....
Couldn't agree more. The difference I see between Cockerill's piece and Foster's is that, while defending Arnold (yet again), the main thrust of Cocky's piece seems to be that we shouldn't just be going for the first big Dutch name on the list in the search for the man to take us to 2010. With that point, I agree.
Foster is just mudslinging, IMO. And his acolytes, as usual, are lapping it up.
Get a grip and stop your constant bashing of Foster
Lets face it alot of you hate him because what his is correct, what he says is true.. we are not as good as we think we are.. and we can improve in so many ways.
That we need to draw influences from other places than just the English game, but really all of you feel threatened by this.. dont you?
Lets face it alot of you hate him because what his is correct, what he says is true.. we are not as good as we think we are.. and we can improve in so many ways.
That we need to draw influences from other places than just the English game, but really all of you feel threatened by this.. dont you?
# posted by : September 17, 2007 at 9:50 AM
: September 17, 2007 at 9:50 AM
Fozzie is spot on.
Arnie did not have a plan B and never has when plying in hot humid conditions in Asia. It is always a 'learning experience'.
Why did he select Carle for Asia given his limited use of him?
Good riddance
By the how many of the coached you nominated were success and why were they!!
Arnie did not have a plan B and never has when plying in hot humid conditions in Asia. It is always a 'learning experience'.
Why did he select Carle for Asia given his limited use of him?
Good riddance
By the how many of the coached you nominated were success and why were they!!
# posted by : September 17, 2007 at 10:20 AM
: September 17, 2007 at 10:20 AM
...Foster is just mudslinging, IMO. And his acolytes, as usual, are lapping it up....
Bang on cue:
...Get a grip and stop your constant bashing of Foster
Lets face it alot of you hate him because what his is correct, what he says is true.. we are not as good as we think we are.. and we can improve in so many ways.
That we need to draw influences from other places than just the English game, but really all of you feel threatened by this.. dont you?...
...Fozzie is spot on.
Arnie did not have a plan B and never has when plying in hot humid conditions in Asia. It is always a 'learning experience'.
Why did he select Carle for Asia given his limited use of him?
Good riddance...
Gentlemen, you may just find that you've, well, missed the point.
Bang on cue:
...Get a grip and stop your constant bashing of Foster
Lets face it alot of you hate him because what his is correct, what he says is true.. we are not as good as we think we are.. and we can improve in so many ways.
That we need to draw influences from other places than just the English game, but really all of you feel threatened by this.. dont you?...
...Fozzie is spot on.
Arnie did not have a plan B and never has when plying in hot humid conditions in Asia. It is always a 'learning experience'.
Why did he select Carle for Asia given his limited use of him?
Good riddance...
Gentlemen, you may just find that you've, well, missed the point.
soorysunshine but being a national coach means you needs plenty of different strategies.
Inexperience leads to one plan for all
Inexperience leads to one plan for all
# posted by : September 17, 2007 at 11:37 AM
: September 17, 2007 at 11:37 AM
What ever we may think of Foster's ideas on the game in Australia, one point of his is compelling but Mikey seems to disagree with it, namely the need for a big name coach.
Mikey, we are dealing with players who cannot complete a simple pass and then expect 'respect' (whatever that is supposed to mean?) from their Asian opponents. These are the sort of players that respect 'name' and those 'above' them in their own percieved heirarchy in world football. They have shown in the past, such as with Farina and more recently with Arnold, that they are shite under coaches that they think are beneath them.
Mikey, we are dealing with players who cannot complete a simple pass and then expect 'respect' (whatever that is supposed to mean?) from their Asian opponents. These are the sort of players that respect 'name' and those 'above' them in their own percieved heirarchy in world football. They have shown in the past, such as with Farina and more recently with Arnold, that they are shite under coaches that they think are beneath them.
# posted by : September 17, 2007 at 3:38 PM
: September 17, 2007 at 3:38 PM
Ruffled a few feathers again I see, mikey... ;-)
To be honest, I can't be arsed working myself up on this topic too much anymore. But I do think it shows that a lot of people (pundits and fans in general) need to grow up quite frankly. Ridiculously hysterical and misguided. I'm referring to the majority of the type of responses here and pieces like Fink's.
People believe what they want to believe and I guess it's easier and feels much better to just blame the coach for all of our problems. Typical fan behaviour, and inevitably there's sections in the media who feed off it. Yet it's the FFA who have used this environment with someone like Arnold to cover their cost cutting and the merits of their rigid, prolonged search for the next full-time/serious coach which is the darkest aspect of it all for mine. Sorry for not articulating myself better.
To be honest, I can't be arsed working myself up on this topic too much anymore. But I do think it shows that a lot of people (pundits and fans in general) need to grow up quite frankly. Ridiculously hysterical and misguided. I'm referring to the majority of the type of responses here and pieces like Fink's.
People believe what they want to believe and I guess it's easier and feels much better to just blame the coach for all of our problems. Typical fan behaviour, and inevitably there's sections in the media who feed off it. Yet it's the FFA who have used this environment with someone like Arnold to cover their cost cutting and the merits of their rigid, prolonged search for the next full-time/serious coach which is the darkest aspect of it all for mine. Sorry for not articulating myself better.
# posted by : September 17, 2007 at 4:04 PM
: September 17, 2007 at 4:04 PM
"Arnold may have been a journeyman in world terms, but he was one of the most distinguished Australian players of his generation. The parallel is a fair one, IMO."
Yes, I agree Mikey, Arnold was a distinguished player and I would never suggest he wasn't. I was though comparing him to the Van Basten, Klinnsman types you mentioned who because of their massive reputations and achievements generally get a speedy gold pass into elite coaching and become untouchable (for at least a few years) because of their status. Arnold didn't have the full benefit of that luxury unfortunately. I personally hope he does really well with the Olyroos, he certainly deserves some success.
Yes, I agree Mikey, Arnold was a distinguished player and I would never suggest he wasn't. I was though comparing him to the Van Basten, Klinnsman types you mentioned who because of their massive reputations and achievements generally get a speedy gold pass into elite coaching and become untouchable (for at least a few years) because of their status. Arnold didn't have the full benefit of that luxury unfortunately. I personally hope he does really well with the Olyroos, he certainly deserves some success.
# posted by : September 17, 2007 at 5:25 PM
: September 17, 2007 at 5:25 PM
...Mikey, we are dealing with players who cannot complete a simple pass and then expect 'respect' (whatever that is supposed to mean?) from their Asian opponents. These are the sort of players that respect 'name' and those 'above' them in their own percieved heirarchy in world football....
I think you're assuming a bit too much there. If a coach with somewhat less of a profile can earn respect through thoroughness of preparation, tactical acumen, fair and honest dealing with the players, etc., I believe they would respect him. Think of Arsene Wenger when he arrived at Arsenal, for instance.
The difference with Arnold, IMO, was that he'd been involved with the national setup for so long (and had probably played a bit of good cop to the bad cop of Hiddink/Farina, by all accounts), that it was a bit of a case of familiarity breeding contempt.
There are plenty of adventurous journeyman coaches out there with Asian experience and plenty to prove, we saw that at the Asian Cup.
IMO, the assumption that a top Euro coach can simply adapt overnight to the requirements of Asia (especially in terms of the travel, climate and availability problems) because of their pedigree is a dangerously mistaken one.
I think you're assuming a bit too much there. If a coach with somewhat less of a profile can earn respect through thoroughness of preparation, tactical acumen, fair and honest dealing with the players, etc., I believe they would respect him. Think of Arsene Wenger when he arrived at Arsenal, for instance.
The difference with Arnold, IMO, was that he'd been involved with the national setup for so long (and had probably played a bit of good cop to the bad cop of Hiddink/Farina, by all accounts), that it was a bit of a case of familiarity breeding contempt.
There are plenty of adventurous journeyman coaches out there with Asian experience and plenty to prove, we saw that at the Asian Cup.
IMO, the assumption that a top Euro coach can simply adapt overnight to the requirements of Asia (especially in terms of the travel, climate and availability problems) because of their pedigree is a dangerously mistaken one.
Mikey, is this when you need to point out in teh big letters that most of the hate is cause foster is a fecking idiot who is making a good point really, really badly.
Discussing a need in change in the direction of Australian football philosophy was so much easier before Foster arrived with his near xenophobic bashing of the English.
And for the record, English football is quite technically profecient.
It just has really shitty tactics.
Discussing a need in change in the direction of Australian football philosophy was so much easier before Foster arrived with his near xenophobic bashing of the English.
And for the record, English football is quite technically profecient.
It just has really shitty tactics.
# posted by : September 17, 2007 at 6:58 PM
: September 17, 2007 at 6:58 PM
I think you're assuming a bit too much there. If a coach with somewhat less of a profile can earn respect through thoroughness of preparation, tactical acumen, fair and honest dealing with the players, etc., I believe they would respect him. Think of Arsene Wenger when he arrived at Arsenal, for instance.
There are plenty of adventurous journeyman coaches out there with Asian experience and plenty to prove, we saw that at the Asian Cup...
Fair point and maybe I am but you would have to agree there are tell tale signs some of which you hinted at with your assessment of Arnolds position vis a vis the players' attitude.
I also agree with your points about coaches but feel they maybe moot since 'thorough preperation' seems like the last thing the NT is going to be afflicted with in the lead up to the initial WC qualifiers. I for one would like nothing better than to see for example an experienced Brazilian coach take a full time position as NT whilst living here because many of his opposite numbers in Asia will also be Brazilian and there are the benefits to be gained from the cultural connection with the imports in the A League and subsequent playing style developement and synergy of both league teams and the A League Aussies who will surely see lots of game time in qualification.
I don't know if the FFA are even considering this scenario.
There are plenty of adventurous journeyman coaches out there with Asian experience and plenty to prove, we saw that at the Asian Cup...
Fair point and maybe I am but you would have to agree there are tell tale signs some of which you hinted at with your assessment of Arnolds position vis a vis the players' attitude.
I also agree with your points about coaches but feel they maybe moot since 'thorough preperation' seems like the last thing the NT is going to be afflicted with in the lead up to the initial WC qualifiers. I for one would like nothing better than to see for example an experienced Brazilian coach take a full time position as NT whilst living here because many of his opposite numbers in Asia will also be Brazilian and there are the benefits to be gained from the cultural connection with the imports in the A League and subsequent playing style developement and synergy of both league teams and the A League Aussies who will surely see lots of game time in qualification.
I don't know if the FFA are even considering this scenario.
# posted by : September 17, 2007 at 7:25 PM
: September 17, 2007 at 7:25 PM
Interesting article by Frank Lowy on why he thinks we need a foreign coach.
Here is the link
http://tinyurl.com/22a8y7
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Here is the link
http://tinyurl.com/22a8y7
# posted by : September 19, 2007 at 10:27 AM
: September 19, 2007 at 10:27 AM << Home
