Wednesday, April 25, 2007
What We Learned
Sydney FC's 3-0 win over Persik Kediri tonight taught us a few things, or rather confirmed many things we already knew. To wit:
- that, when the climatic factors are taken out of the equation, there is a considerable gulf between the two sides.
- that playing with ten men behind the ball and a profoundly useless centre-forward in front of it is never enough to get you a draw away from home against a better side.
- that, as a full-back, Iain Fyfe makes a good central defender.
- that for all his faults, David Zdrilic has a quality which makes him important to Branko Culina's side - he can operate effectively with back to goal.
- that against less than mobile defenders, Adam Casey poses considerable danger.
- that Terry McFlynn's combative qualities are not complemented by any creative qualities.
- that certain linesmen, when in any doubt, will always flag for offside rather than not.
- that writhing in agony when playing an Australian side will generally garner you a free kick in Asian competition.
- that, in light of certain comments and chants made by the crowd, there is still a nasty undercurrent of racism in Australia's perception of Indonesia and its inhabitants.
- that, despite his age and his relative lack of pace, Steve Corica is still Sydney FC's one true class act.
- that, when the climatic factors are taken out of the equation, there is a considerable gulf between the two sides.
- that playing with ten men behind the ball and a profoundly useless centre-forward in front of it is never enough to get you a draw away from home against a better side.
- that, as a full-back, Iain Fyfe makes a good central defender.
- that for all his faults, David Zdrilic has a quality which makes him important to Branko Culina's side - he can operate effectively with back to goal.
- that against less than mobile defenders, Adam Casey poses considerable danger.
- that Terry McFlynn's combative qualities are not complemented by any creative qualities.
- that certain linesmen, when in any doubt, will always flag for offside rather than not.
- that writhing in agony when playing an Australian side will generally garner you a free kick in Asian competition.
- that, in light of certain comments and chants made by the crowd, there is still a nasty undercurrent of racism in Australia's perception of Indonesia and its inhabitants.
- that, despite his age and his relative lack of pace, Steve Corica is still Sydney FC's one true class act.
Comments:
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Mike Carlton in his saturday articles in the SMH has been on about Australia's perception of Indonesia for a while now....it makes some good reading if you can find them.
And to be honest, i would be of the opinion thats its not just Indonesia.....I think there is a general waff of racism to any Asian nation.
Anyway, looks like we are going to need a result in Saitama.....the same thing we said about Stuttgart and Croatia when we saw the draw...in our last big OS adventure
And to be honest, i would be of the opinion thats its not just Indonesia.....I think there is a general waff of racism to any Asian nation.
Anyway, looks like we are going to need a result in Saitama.....the same thing we said about Stuttgart and Croatia when we saw the draw...in our last big OS adventure
that, in light of certain comments and chants made by the crowd, there is still a nasty undercurrent of racism in Australia's perception of Indonesia and its inhabitants.
This is very true. I was sitting in the Cove, just on the edge and some of the chants were just terrible.
I hope Shanghai don't receive the same level of cheap chants on May 9.
I did put Zdrilic down at some times, but he did work well to set up the two goals. Both him and Brosque need to start taking more shots though, outside of the box too.
This is very true. I was sitting in the Cove, just on the edge and some of the chants were just terrible.
I hope Shanghai don't receive the same level of cheap chants on May 9.
I did put Zdrilic down at some times, but he did work well to set up the two goals. Both him and Brosque need to start taking more shots though, outside of the box too.
# posted by 
: April 26, 2007 at 8:49 AM
: April 26, 2007 at 8:49 AM
Hey Mike
Just wondering what I've done to you to warrant being slagged off by you as a "moron" on the Sydney FC board?
Have we ever met?
Was just about to send you a copy of my book - gratis - in a gesture of fraternity, but clearly you're intellectually way above my station.
Best wishes
Jesse Fink
Just wondering what I've done to you to warrant being slagged off by you as a "moron" on the Sydney FC board?
Have we ever met?
Was just about to send you a copy of my book - gratis - in a gesture of fraternity, but clearly you're intellectually way above my station.
Best wishes
Jesse Fink
"- that Terry McFlynn's combative qualities are not complemented by any creative qualities."
Oi! Who laid on the assist for Corica's final goal? I'm pretty sure that it was T-Mac. Reminds me almost exactly of a similar diagonal ball he played for the same goal the season before, in the A-League. I think that it was Corica on the end of that one too?
Oi! Who laid on the assist for Corica's final goal? I'm pretty sure that it was T-Mac. Reminds me almost exactly of a similar diagonal ball he played for the same goal the season before, in the A-League. I think that it was Corica on the end of that one too?
..."- that Terry McFlynn's combative qualities are not complemented by any creative qualities."
Oi! Who laid on the assist for Corica's final goal? I'm pretty sure that it was T-Mac. Reminds me almost exactly of a similar diagonal ball he played for the same goal the season before, in the A-League. I think that it was Corica on the end of that one too?...
Fair enough. I'm talking about his general contribution; whenever he receives the ball in midfield he seems unsure about what to do with it most of the time. In a man-marking capacity, as I've mentioned before, there's no-one better in our squad.
...Just wondering what I've done to you to warrant being slagged off by you as a "moron" on the Sydney FC board?
Have we ever met?...
We've never met (as far as I know). That was an offhand comment on a football forum such as you would see almost anywhere. If I had a buck for the number of times I've been called that or worse on boards like SFCU, I'd be a rich man. But point taken, I apologise if you were offended.
To expand on it a bit, I've disagreed with many of the things you've written in the past, and found your research sloppy and your opinions largely based on jingoism rather than rational analysis. But that's just my view.
And you're probably a generous, affable soul in the flesh (thanks for the thought over the book). In that respect, I feel the same way about you as I do about Craig Foster, if that makes any sense.
Oi! Who laid on the assist for Corica's final goal? I'm pretty sure that it was T-Mac. Reminds me almost exactly of a similar diagonal ball he played for the same goal the season before, in the A-League. I think that it was Corica on the end of that one too?...
Fair enough. I'm talking about his general contribution; whenever he receives the ball in midfield he seems unsure about what to do with it most of the time. In a man-marking capacity, as I've mentioned before, there's no-one better in our squad.
...Just wondering what I've done to you to warrant being slagged off by you as a "moron" on the Sydney FC board?
Have we ever met?...
We've never met (as far as I know). That was an offhand comment on a football forum such as you would see almost anywhere. If I had a buck for the number of times I've been called that or worse on boards like SFCU, I'd be a rich man. But point taken, I apologise if you were offended.
To expand on it a bit, I've disagreed with many of the things you've written in the past, and found your research sloppy and your opinions largely based on jingoism rather than rational analysis. But that's just my view.
And you're probably a generous, affable soul in the flesh (thanks for the thought over the book). In that respect, I feel the same way about you as I do about Craig Foster, if that makes any sense.
Mike
What a load of twaddle.
"We've never met (as far as I know). That was an offhand comment on a football forum such as you would see almost anywhere. If I had a buck for the number of times I've been called that or worse on boards like SFCU, I'd be a rich man. But point taken, I apologise if you were offended."
Of course, I'm offended. Don't be gutless and say your comment was offhand. Your statement was: "For the record, Jesse Fink is a moron."
Pretty unequivocal. Sounds like you know all about me. Do tell me more. (Save me the bills from my psychoanalyst.)
"To expand on it a bit, I've disagreed with many of the things you've written in the past, and found your research sloppy and your opinions largely based on jingoism rather than rational analysis. But that's just my view."
Really? Love you to point out how my research is sloppy and my opinions jingoistic. C'mon, Mike, enlighten me.
"And you're probably a generous, affable soul in the flesh (thanks for the thought over the book). In that respect, I feel the same way about you as I do about Craig Foster, if that makes any sense."
No, not really. Again, shower me with your overflowing wisdom.
Looking forward to it.
Cheers
Jesse Fink
What a load of twaddle.
"We've never met (as far as I know). That was an offhand comment on a football forum such as you would see almost anywhere. If I had a buck for the number of times I've been called that or worse on boards like SFCU, I'd be a rich man. But point taken, I apologise if you were offended."
Of course, I'm offended. Don't be gutless and say your comment was offhand. Your statement was: "For the record, Jesse Fink is a moron."
Pretty unequivocal. Sounds like you know all about me. Do tell me more. (Save me the bills from my psychoanalyst.)
"To expand on it a bit, I've disagreed with many of the things you've written in the past, and found your research sloppy and your opinions largely based on jingoism rather than rational analysis. But that's just my view."
Really? Love you to point out how my research is sloppy and my opinions jingoistic. C'mon, Mike, enlighten me.
"And you're probably a generous, affable soul in the flesh (thanks for the thought over the book). In that respect, I feel the same way about you as I do about Craig Foster, if that makes any sense."
No, not really. Again, shower me with your overflowing wisdom.
Looking forward to it.
Cheers
Jesse Fink
Hey Mikey, I don't remember calling you a moron and I'd be surprised if I did as I've always found your analysis balanced and often insightful. I'm somewhat embarrassed to find my research called 'sloppy', but for the most part can't complain as my opinions are rarely based on any research other than watching matches and occasionally looking up things in Wikipedia (damn.. knew that would get me found out one day!). Could you point it out to me? I can't help feeling that perhaps there's been some misunderstanding...
...Hey Mikey, I don't remember calling you a moron and I'd be surprised if I did as I've always found your analysis balanced and often insightful. I'm somewhat embarrassed to find my research called 'sloppy', but for the most part can't complain as my opinions are rarely based on any research other than watching matches and occasionally looking up things in Wikipedia (damn.. knew that would get me found out one day!). Could you point it out to me? I can't help feeling that perhaps there's been some misunderstanding...
Apologies Marty, I replied to yours and Jesse's posts in the one go, and that bit referred to Jesse. Sorry for the confusion.
Apologies Marty, I replied to yours and Jesse's posts in the one go, and that bit referred to Jesse. Sorry for the confusion.
...Of course, I'm offended. Don't be gutless and say your comment was offhand. Your statement was: "For the record, Jesse Fink is a moron."...
Jesse,
Have you been on football forums much?
That, frankly, is absolutely mild. If you're upset by comments like that, I suggest you abandon your editorial space on Fox, because with strong opinions like yours, you're going to get a few people who disagree with you. And if you're prepared to dredge football forums for comments, you may receive some nasty surprises.
...Really? Love you to point out how my research is sloppy and my opinions jingoistic. C'mon, Mike, enlighten me....
I haven't actually read your blog for a while. If I felt so inclined I'd dig up some of the old stuff I objected to, but I don't.
..."And you're probably a generous, affable soul in the flesh (thanks for the thought over the book). In that respect, I feel the same way about you as I do about Craig Foster, if that makes any sense."
No, not really. Again, shower me with your overflowing wisdom....
It means I find some of what you write objectionable but am keeping my mind open on you personally.
Look, I've apologised for the original comment, now will you please grow a skin or two?
Regards,
Mike.
Jesse,
Have you been on football forums much?
That, frankly, is absolutely mild. If you're upset by comments like that, I suggest you abandon your editorial space on Fox, because with strong opinions like yours, you're going to get a few people who disagree with you. And if you're prepared to dredge football forums for comments, you may receive some nasty surprises.
...Really? Love you to point out how my research is sloppy and my opinions jingoistic. C'mon, Mike, enlighten me....
I haven't actually read your blog for a while. If I felt so inclined I'd dig up some of the old stuff I objected to, but I don't.
..."And you're probably a generous, affable soul in the flesh (thanks for the thought over the book). In that respect, I feel the same way about you as I do about Craig Foster, if that makes any sense."
No, not really. Again, shower me with your overflowing wisdom....
It means I find some of what you write objectionable but am keeping my mind open on you personally.
Look, I've apologised for the original comment, now will you please grow a skin or two?
Regards,
Mike.
Learned Mike
In response to your latest inadequate reply:
"Have you been on football forums much?
"That, frankly, is absolutely mild. If you're upset by comments like that, I suggest you abandon your editorial space on Fox, because with strong opinions like yours, you're going to get a few people who disagree with you. And if you're prepared to dredge football forums for comments, you may receive some nasty surprises."
Yeah, Mike, I look at the forums. Why shouldn't I? I objected to your comment because you're personally vilifying me with nothing to back up your opinion. At least the bloggers who visit my site and disagree with me have the class to keep it civil. And when they disagree with a point I make, they usually support it with constructive feedback.
"I haven't actually read your blog for a while. If I felt so inclined I'd dig up some of the old stuff I objected to, but I don't."
Then why criticise me in a thread about an article you haven't even read? Why don't you read the piece the ESPN story is about before passing judgement on my character?
"It means I find some of what you write objectionable but am keeping my mind open on you personally.
"Look, I've apologised for the original comment, now will you please grow a skin or two?"
My friend, to be in this job you have to have a thick skin, but what I won't abide is someone as pretentious as you having a go at me with no sound foundation for the criticism.
Cheers
Jesse Fink
In response to your latest inadequate reply:
"Have you been on football forums much?
"That, frankly, is absolutely mild. If you're upset by comments like that, I suggest you abandon your editorial space on Fox, because with strong opinions like yours, you're going to get a few people who disagree with you. And if you're prepared to dredge football forums for comments, you may receive some nasty surprises."
Yeah, Mike, I look at the forums. Why shouldn't I? I objected to your comment because you're personally vilifying me with nothing to back up your opinion. At least the bloggers who visit my site and disagree with me have the class to keep it civil. And when they disagree with a point I make, they usually support it with constructive feedback.
"I haven't actually read your blog for a while. If I felt so inclined I'd dig up some of the old stuff I objected to, but I don't."
Then why criticise me in a thread about an article you haven't even read? Why don't you read the piece the ESPN story is about before passing judgement on my character?
"It means I find some of what you write objectionable but am keeping my mind open on you personally.
"Look, I've apologised for the original comment, now will you please grow a skin or two?"
My friend, to be in this job you have to have a thick skin, but what I won't abide is someone as pretentious as you having a go at me with no sound foundation for the criticism.
Cheers
Jesse Fink
Jesse, honestly.
If you can't take a football forum putdown (of which I've received hundreds over the years, and for which I've already apologised), then you really need to think about taking editorial stances, IMHO.
Can we please carry this on by email from now on by the way. My email's on my profile.
Cheers,
Mike.
If you can't take a football forum putdown (of which I've received hundreds over the years, and for which I've already apologised), then you really need to think about taking editorial stances, IMHO.
Can we please carry this on by email from now on by the way. My email's on my profile.
Cheers,
Mike.
...My email's on my profile....
Sorry, scratch that, thought it was. You can find it on SFCU (or just message me there).
-M.
Sorry, scratch that, thought it was. You can find it on SFCU (or just message me there).
-M.
On a more lighthearted note Mikey, I just found this:
...and his wife assumes no responsibility for his dress sense...
Perhaps you could show her the photos from my parent's wedding and she'll never have a bad word to say again!
...and his wife assumes no responsibility for his dress sense...
Perhaps you could show her the photos from my parent's wedding and she'll never have a bad word to say again!
Firstly, Mike - yours is the best of the football blogs I read. It's always well written, thought-provoking and rational. Much better than Jesse "Wellington are Nazis" Fink's drivel.
Fink, if you're reading, just because you studied journalism (did you?) doesn't make you a better writer or journalist than anyone else. All it takes is a command on the language, a willingness to search and passion for your subject matter. Calling Mike pretentious because he dared to disagree with you is pretty... pretentious.
Secondly, Corica is one of two class acts in our side. You've forgotten the prodigal son that is Mark Milligan.
Fink, if you're reading, just because you studied journalism (did you?) doesn't make you a better writer or journalist than anyone else. All it takes is a command on the language, a willingness to search and passion for your subject matter. Calling Mike pretentious because he dared to disagree with you is pretty... pretentious.
Secondly, Corica is one of two class acts in our side. You've forgotten the prodigal son that is Mark Milligan.
# posted by : April 26, 2007 at 5:56 PM
: April 26, 2007 at 5:56 PM
re McFlynn not having creative qualities ...
all 3 goals last night came from McFlynn's crosses .
rewatch 'em and take note ...
http://www.stopwastingmyoxygen.com/videos/25apr07goals.wmv
all 3 goals last night came from McFlynn's crosses .
rewatch 'em and take note ...
http://www.stopwastingmyoxygen.com/videos/25apr07goals.wmv
- that for all his faults, David Zdrilic has a quality which makes him important to Branko Culina's side - he can operate effectively with back to goal.
------------------
Agree he was fantastic last night
-----------
- that writhing in agony when playing an Australian side will generally garner you a free kick in Asian competition.
-----------------------
and probably and unfair yellow card
------------------
Agree he was fantastic last night
-----------
- that writhing in agony when playing an Australian side will generally garner you a free kick in Asian competition.
-----------------------
and probably and unfair yellow card
Thanks for the comments drunkfly.
Mr. Fink hasn't been in contact since, so I'm assuming it's water under the bridge now.
Mr. Fink hasn't been in contact since, so I'm assuming it's water under the bridge now.
For the record, I don't always agree with Mike's opinions (or rather, sometimes I actually find myself agreeing with Foz....ha) but I find them well-considered and researched. He often points out angles and issues I hadn't even considered. And when someone replies with a criticism, he generally takes it on board rather than dismissing it outright, or getting overly twitchy and defensive.
However, I once replied to Jesse Fink on his Fox blog about a rather histrionic post of his (and most of them are) concerning Australian football fans being duped by the FFA because Bahrain had sent their U23 team to play Down Under. (It's an outrageous FFA cover-up. I want answers! etc etc) He criticised me and then simultaneously re-edited his blog, cutting out the original comments I took issue with. When I pointed out (quite politely) that he'd actually re-edited his blog, this reply was in turn judiciously edited... presumably so no-one else would notice the backpedal?
So much for transparent interaction between blogger and reader. Needless to say, I gave up after that.
However, I once replied to Jesse Fink on his Fox blog about a rather histrionic post of his (and most of them are) concerning Australian football fans being duped by the FFA because Bahrain had sent their U23 team to play Down Under. (It's an outrageous FFA cover-up. I want answers! etc etc) He criticised me and then simultaneously re-edited his blog, cutting out the original comments I took issue with. When I pointed out (quite politely) that he'd actually re-edited his blog, this reply was in turn judiciously edited... presumably so no-one else would notice the backpedal?
So much for transparent interaction between blogger and reader. Needless to say, I gave up after that.
# posted by : April 27, 2007 at 12:55 AM
: April 27, 2007 at 12:55 AM
Anonymous, I had a similiar experience, and like you, gave up on Jesse's blog.
My offending (and deleted) comment was:
"I've been following you for a week now Jesse and apparently your entire strategy is to 'beat it up'. I might add that your utter absence of generosity would not even become an unquestionable icon of the sport, which you are not.
You sound like a whinging fool, desperate for something important to say."
My offending (and deleted) comment was:
"I've been following you for a week now Jesse and apparently your entire strategy is to 'beat it up'. I might add that your utter absence of generosity would not even become an unquestionable icon of the sport, which you are not.
You sound like a whinging fool, desperate for something important to say."
I've never actually nutted anyone on TWGF!
Next time I see my boy at FOX I'm going to try and get some lowdown on this Fink malaka.
Next time I see my boy at FOX I'm going to try and get some lowdown on this Fink malaka.
# posted by : April 28, 2007 at 1:04 AM
: April 28, 2007 at 1:04 AM
This is way way after the event but after reading some of Jesse Fink's "product" on the foxsports blog someone pointed this particular exchange out to me...
Quality stuff by the Finkster.
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Quality stuff by the Finkster.
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